Criminal charges?

I realize the outstanding District Attorney in Sedgiwck County is busy on her 17th BTK documentary for A&E and has little time to work on actual crime BUT...

In light of the charges following the Avs/Canucks game a couple years ago, I think the DA should at least review the incident. If the evidence shows Fleck's actions were way beyond the normal actions taken in a hockey game, I think he should have assault and battery charges brought against him.

Any thoughts?

Trust me. I'm a huge Av's fan. But charges I think would not be the right way to go. Besides, a judge threw out the Bertuzzi/Moore case and they had dozens of looks at it. We only have one. Not enough evidence.

i personally think the league should police itself! the league needs to look at mr. assflecks track record and send a swift and just punishment. he is giving the sport a bad name. i also think the coach should be held accountable in some fashion whether it be monetary or soforth. i know a coach cant control his players everymove but if a player knows that it will reflect on their coach as well they may think twice before doing it, or in flecks case once.

at the very least the blazer organization should be responsible for any and all medical expenses incurred because of the classless act one of their so called representatives pulled.

As pissed as I am about the elbow, and as much as I would love to see Fleck get what's coming to him, the criminal justice system has no place in hockey, as long as the league does a proper job of policing itself.

That's a good idea. Just like arresting parents when their kids get caught with drugs.

I know that, in the case of bench clearing brawls, coaches can (and have been) suspended/fined for not having control of their team. But I'm not sure if there is any precedent, in any league, of a coach getting disciplined for a attempt to injure match penalty. Anybody heard of such a thing happening?

gametime wrote:

i personally think the league should police itself! the league needs to look at mr. assflecks track record and send a swift and just punishment. he is giving the sport a bad name. i also think the coach should be held accountable in some fashion whether it be monetary or soforth. i know a coach cant control his players everymove but if a player knows that it will reflect on their coach as well they may think twice before doing it, or in flecks case once. at the very least the blazer organization should be responsible for any and all medical expenses incurred because of the classless act one of their so called representatives pulled.

The Thunder's insurance will cover all of the expenses. I believe the visiting team has "immunity" in the CHL, I know that issue came up following the Howarth incident. Basically, Todd sued the Blazers but the Thunder was forced to defend the lawsuit as they were the host team.

I also tend to agree that the criminal justice system has no place in hockey, however I think it would send a strong message to the CHL and the rest of the league that society will not tolerate activity like that.

I saw on another message board that the law has no jurisdiction "on the ice" anyway, which would end this topic all together. I liked your perspective on the situation, Gametime. Oh yeah, and that green shirt you were wearin' last night.

lqseven wrote:

Trust me. I'm a huge Av's fan. But charges I think would not be the right way to go. Besides, a judge threw out the Bertuzzi/Moore case and they had dozens of looks at it. We only have one. Not enough evidence.

The Colorado judge threw it out because they had no jursidiction since it happened in B.C.

its best to leave the courts out of this
we may not all agree with whatever the punishment is but let the league do their own policing .
we dont need the courts handling this kind of stuff

You do not want law enforcement involved in on ice incidents in any shpe form or fashion.......We had an issue with that in Tulsa in 93-94...Officers tried to restrain a player (Bruce Shoebottom) because they thought he was assaulting the penalty box official...Shoebottom was trying to get out of the box to enter a situation on the ice at which time the penalty box official tried to restrain him (which he should not have done) and Tulsa Police thought the official was endanger and choked out Shoebottom......There were lawsuits involved not to mention bad press but it was all dropped over time...The penalty box is part of the "ice" and if a player wants out he can get out and deal with the ramifications from the league...No official needs to try an restrain him...Especially one that physically can't do it..It was an ugly incident all the way around...Assault on one player by another is diffrent because players know what kind of situation they are getting into when they step on the ice...Much diffrent then when Roper is at the casino riding the 25 cent pony and some kid knocks him off it...Now thats assault and charges do apply....

Cherrypicker wrote:

I saw on another message board that the law has no jurisdiction "on the ice" anyway, which would end this topic all together. I liked your perspective on the situation, Gametime. Oh yeah, and that green shirt you were wearin' last night.

Not sure where you saw that but it is 100% wrong.

The law has jurisdiction everywhere. There has been criminal charges filed in several incidents in sporting events. I believe Dino Ciccarelli actually spent a night in jail due to an incident in an NHL game. I actually don't remember the specifics on the Bertuzzi deal but I believe he struck a plea bargain with the Canadian authorities.

I am not saying I think Fleck should be charged (I have not and probably never will see the tape). All I am saying is I think it would send a strong message if the DA or the Sheriff announced they were reviewing the tape.

anyone have any info on when the league may have a ruling?
and who actually reviews the tape? is the ref required to be there ect?

Yea remember the hanson brother had to spend some time in jail for what happened during one of their games...

I am just going on what has been said about the incident, but I simply don't see any reason for criminal charges here. Here are a few thoughts about posts by others:

As someone pointed out, the Colorado civil lawsuit was dismissed because it should have been heard in B.C., not Denver. I don't think that suprised anyone. It had nothing to do with the merits of the case.

I have a hard time comparing this hit by Fleck to the one laid by Bertuzzi anyway. There is a difference between a hit, whether outside the rules or not, that occurs during the flow of the game and is part of the game and one where another player simply jumps someone from behind and sucker-punches him.

As for the law getting involved, I think it is wrong to say that criminal charges should never be filed for an on ice incident. I think it depends on the game and what actions are reasonably considered part of the game. For instance, Fleck's hit I believe is part of the game - even if against the rules - and should not bring criminal charges. Now, if a player had gone out and before the faceoff busted his stick over someone's head, then proceeded to take the jagged edge of the broken shaft and stab the person five or six times in the stomach - I doubt that anyone would say that he should be brought up on criminal charges as his actions - even if they occurred on the ice - are not part of the game.

Another example would baseball. If a pitcher intentionally hits a batter in the head, it is part of the game - even if against the rules. If a pitcher intentionally hits a guy in the head when he is standing in the on deck circle - I think you have criminal actions.

Or football, a late hit on the quarterback is against the rules, but not something that should bring criminal charges. Going up behind the quarterback well after the play has ended, ripping off his helmet and proceeding to beat him over the head with it is criminal.

Flying elbow, butt-ends, etc. are part of the game of hockey, especially if they occur during the action of the game. That is why I do not think Fleck should be criminally charged.

kevgraub wrote:

I am just going on what has been said about the incident, but I simply don't see any reason for criminal charges here. Here are a few thoughts about posts by others: As someone pointed out, the Colorado civil lawsuit was dismissed because it should have been heard in B.C., not Denver. I don't think that suprised anyone. It had nothing to do with the merits of the case. I have a hard time comparing this hit by Fleck to the one laid by Bertuzzi anyway. There is a difference between a hit, whether outside the rules or not, that occurs during the flow of the game and is part of the game and one where another player simply jumps someone from behind and sucker-punches him. As for the law getting involved, I think it is wrong to say that criminal charges should never be filed for an on ice incident. I think it depends on the game and what actions are reasonably considered part of the game. For instance, Fleck's hit I believe is part of the game - even if against the rules - and should not bring criminal charges. Now, if a player had gone out and before the faceoff busted his stick over someone's head, then proceeded to take the jagged edge of the broken shaft and stab the person five or six times in the stomach - I doubt that anyone would say that he should be brought up on criminal charges as his actions - even if they occurred on the ice - are not part of the game. Another example would baseball. If a pitcher intentionally hits a batter in the head, it is part of the game - even if against the rules. If a pitcher intentionally hits a guy in the head when he is standing in the on deck circle - I think you have criminal actions. Or football, a late hit on the quarterback is against the rules, but not something that should bring criminal charges. Going up behind the quarterback well after the play has ended, ripping off his helmet and proceeding to beat him over the head with it is criminal. Flying elbow, butt-ends, etc. are part of the game of hockey, especially if they occur during the action of the game. That is why I do not think Fleck should be criminally charged.

Actually, I think most of the OKC fans would still be proud of Fleck if he stabbed another player.

I definitely agree that you don't want the law involved unless absolutely necessary. Sooner or later, roughing will be called assault, slashing will be ADW, and I don't even want to think about fisticuffs!

Kev, don't talk about hitting on deck batters as many of us remember Mr Christenson plunking the on deck Evansville batter, effectively ending his career. I think charges were filed but I don't remember them going anywhere.

You guys are fu***** amazing....

The simple fact of the matter is, if the shoe was on the other foot and a Wichita player had done the same to an OKC star player, the Blazer fans as a whole would be pitching a fit and the Thunder fans as a whole would be trying to slough it off. That's just the nature of the beast.

Does OKC have any "star" players this year?