WFHockeyFan wrote:

That was a good find. It took me a long time back in the fall just to find the Junior Rule Book. I still don't see how you found the "JUNIOR RULES & REGULATIONS FOR INVITATIONAL, REGIONAL & NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS" I'm looking at the entry website and can't see where you found a link.

After 9 Scotch and waters (hold the water please) and a cab ride home, it was easy. Go under the Junior section on the USA Hockey site, look under "FORMS". Plain as day. I probably could have found it sober.

i just find it funny that SOME WF fans are sooo worried about it when they dont have a dog in the race.

Looks like someone else has been on the Scotch...

St. Lou wrote:

WFHockeyFan wrote: That was a good find. It took me a long time back in the fall just to find the Junior Rule Book. I still don't see how you found the "JUNIOR RULES & REGULATIONS FOR INVITATIONAL, REGIONAL & NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS" I'm looking at the entry website and can't see where you found a link. After 9 Scotch and waters (hold the water please) and a cab ride home, it was easy. Go under the Junior section on the USA Hockey site, look under "FORMS". Plain as day. I probably could have found it sober.

Damn, that WAS easy.

Pucked Up Fan wrote:

i just find it funny that SOME WF fans are sooo worried about it when they dont have a dog in the race.

Don't forget, you're one of US now.

WFHockeyFan wrote:

St. Lou wrote: WFHockeyFan wrote: That was a good find. It took me a long time back in the fall just to find the Junior Rule Book. I still don't see how you found the "JUNIOR RULES & REGULATIONS FOR INVITATIONAL, REGIONAL & NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS" I'm looking at the entry website and can't see where you found a link. After 9 Scotch and waters (hold the water please) and a cab ride home, it was easy. Go under the Junior section on the USA Hockey site, look under "FORMS". Plain as day. I probably could have found it sober. Damn, that WAS easy.

I am going to try it in the morning and see if it is easy.

Hell, I'm not upset because of lack of knowledge about the rules. I just think it is a stupid rule. A TIE...after one FIVE MINUTE OT. Stupid.

*just waking up and seeing this discussion after going to bed early last night*

It's a rule (mis)serving all levels. I imagine it's like this to maintain a schedule. For the Tier III-A Nationals you're playing six games a day during the round robin, and taking an hour to cut the ice and play a full OT period really cuts into things.

Consider this, in the T3A Nationals, there are three round robin brackets of four teams. The three bracket winners advance, but the wild card team, a #2 from one of the three brackets, nearly every season (talking Junior B before T3A was formed) gets in via the goal differential, which means some teams are playing for blowouts.

Pucked Up Fan wrote:

i just find it funny that SOME WF fans are sooo worried about it when they dont have a dog in the race.

hmmmmm

BigRed80 wrote:

Chopper--no conspiracy in hijacking the screen name. That was just me. And apologies to AYKM. But seriously--how the hell could this happen? This is the championship series, for crying out loud. I guess maybe Fairbanks and Springy should also be there since their final games should have been ties as well.

Yeah................what he said.

Unbelievable. The NAHL once again shits its pants.

St. Lou wrote:

I am not confused. National Tournament is under USA Hockey Junior Rules. Here is what their official guide for National Championships states: I. Method of Determining the Champion 1. Competition a. For Round Robin Competition If two teams are tied at the end of a regulation game, each team shall be awarded one (1) point for the tie. The teams shall rest at their benches for a period of three (3) minutes, then continue to play a five (5) minute overtime period of sudden-victory competition. Teams shall not change ends. If no goal is scored, the game will be recorded as a tie. If a goal is scored, the winning team shall be awarded a bonus point for the victory, in an addition to the point already earned for the tie. They were simply following the rules stated in the Junior Nationals Rule Book. Sometimes I wonder why so many get so upset over things they have no clue about.

Rule 638. Tied Games
(a) Any overtime period shall be considered part of the game and all unexpired penalties shall remain in force.
(b) If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period or periods, the game shall be declared a loss
for that team.
(c) During play-offs and National Championships, if at the end of three periods the score is tied, the following
shall take place:
1. Teams shall return to their dressing room and the ice shall be resurfaced.
2. Teams shall change ends.
3. A twenty-minute period shall be played.
4. The game shall terminate upon a goal being scored and the team scoring declared the winner. If no goal
is scored, the same procedure as above shall be repeated until a winner has been determined.
(Note) Each League may make its own procedure regarding overtime during exhibition and regular season
games.

Looks to me like the league and USA Hockey have an Issue here. I took the above out of the 2007-2009 rule book. The quoted was taken fro the rule book also? looks like a problem to me as they contradict each other.

You are correct I dont have a dog in this race, but still love to watch hockey...for the love of the game!!!!

So

So the rule chnaged in March I can live with that......

At least it wsan't another, hey I have an idea lets do this type of last minute crap!

Thank you for posting the updated info.

See you in St Louis!

BUCKETMAN

chopper wrote:

Looks to me like the league and USA Hockey have an Issue here.

Wouldn't be the first time...

From a competition (and bragging rights) stand point, a tie is unsatisfactory in any competition. However, the key component is the fact the round robin part of the tournament, is for the express purpose of determining rankings for the final round,.....and it has accomplished that. In fact, if actual winnners were determined in the MV-St Lou game, and if Alex were to beat MV today, and if St Lou were to beat Topeka,......tie breakers would have been used to determine both, who gets the bye into the championship, and who's season is over. That would have been a far worse situation, that a tie in a round robin game.

The two games today will be excellant, as they both mean alot for all teams. Alex and MV are playing to stay alive,....or be done for the year. St Louis and Topeka are playing for a bye (i.e rest) going into the championship game. The following game will also be very important as it is for the opportunity to play for the Championship.

The remainging games should all be excellant. I wish I could be there.

ohiohockeyfan wrote:

Warda has Green hair?

He's going to Michigan State next year (the Sparties are green and white)...

Oops. Forget that one.

Last edited by kevgraub on Fri May 02, 2008 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total

Junior Gold wrote:

In fact, if actual winnners were determined in the MV-St Lou game, and if Alex were to beat MV today, and if St Lou were to beat Topeka,......tie breakers would have been used to determine both, who gets the bye into the championship, and who's season is over. That would have been a far worse situation, that a tie in a round robin game.

I agree, that is the silver lining in all of this. The only possible tiebreaker situation could come if St. Louis loses and MV wins. Then both teams would end up 1-1-1 and tied for 2nd and 3rd. Not a major deal there, as I would imagine the only possible advantage to being 2nd instead of 3rd is getting to be named the home team for the semi-final game (not even sure if that is how that will be decided though).

It is kind of nice to know that no one is going to earn the bye, and no one is going to get sent home based upon a tiebreaker.

chopper wrote:

Rule 638. Tied Games (a) Any overtime period shall be considered part of the game and all unexpired penalties shall remain in force. (b) If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period or periods, the game shall be declared a loss for that team. (c) During play-offs and National Championships, if at the end of three periods the score is tied, the following shall take place: 1. Teams shall return to their dressing room and the ice shall be resurfaced. 2. Teams shall change ends. 3. A twenty-minute period shall be played. 4. The game shall terminate upon a goal being scored and the team scoring declared the winner. If no goal is scored, the same procedure as above shall be repeated until a winner has been determined. (Note) Each League may make its own procedure regarding overtime during exhibition and regular season games.

The rule for Nationals is different than what is stated at every junior level, Tier III A, B, etc. In the round robin, they play one overtime and declare it a tie. So why would this be any different? Much ado about nothing if you ask me. All this pissing and moaning over conspiricy blah blah blah is a joke. St. Louis didn't make the rules, the NAHL establishes the rules. Tell me, who are the best two teams in the league? I say MV and St. Louis. St. Louis will beat Topeka today to get the bye into the championship and MV will beat Alexandria, then avenge the loss to Topeka on Saturday to play St. Louis on Sunday. As for the winner of that game? I'm gonna say St. Louis wins again.

Rule 638

Rule 638, Section C, applies to the National Championship GAME. This game WAS NOT the National Championship GAME. This was a ROUND ROBIN game.

The rules are all spelled out very clearly, albeit a bit hard to find, but very clearly depending on the game.

Thanks to St. Lou for citing the rule governing national championships, and thanks to Junior Gold for summing up the situation.

Still, however, I think it is ridiculous to call a game at a national championship tournament a tie after 5 minutes of OT.

Rather than using "shall," perhaps the rule should set out other available options such as play 20 minutes of OT, then call the game a tie.

I am glad, however, that this situation was not created by the NAHL. The league was complying with a USAH rule and had no choice in the matter.