Hockeyman1989 wrote:

Any of you guys posting actually ever put on a sweater and grabbed a whistle? Doubtful.....maybe you should try it before you start bashing referee's and linesmen. Afterall what game would you have to watch without them?

Welcome to the boards, Dreger.

you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle.

Hockeyman1989 wrote:

you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle.

I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad.

HockeyFamily wrote:

Hockeyman1989 wrote: you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle. I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad.

Amazing how we keep returning to the question of standards, isn't it?

Topeka Blade wrote:

HockeyFamily wrote: Hockeyman1989 wrote: you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle. I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad. Amazing how we keep returning to the question of standards, isn't it?

Yes it is. I know I have standards at my work. I think most people do that have a job. We have standards for fast food workers, why can't we have then for our refs? Why not have certain standards for the refs and if they can't meet the standards find some that will.

Poll is added now.

Btw does anyone know if Ferguson is still a ref in the NAHL? I didn't hear a peep about him all year.

I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. Yes, probably does... There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time.

The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. There's the problem. There aren't enough recruits in the pipeline, and the older more experienced refs are leaving/have left.

The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. Wholeheartedly agree!
The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Again, agreed. But standards are going to have to go up, probably using an evaluation system. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad Couldn't agree more.

Have you guys ever even tried it?

How fitting, this poll coming from a WF fan....

bp

The poll needs an "all of the above" option

BorderPatrol wrote:

How fitting, this poll coming from a WF fan.... bp

How fitting you bitching about something someone for WF writes just like always.

Hockeyman1989 wrote:

Have you guys ever even tried it?

Nope, never have and never will. I am sure that it is a hard job, but don't you think that it is a refs responsiblity to do their job correctly?

I take it you are a ref by the constant "have you tried it" comments. Are you one of the refs mentioned? If so then this might be the wake up call you need to know that you aren't the best in the league. If not then why are you so concerned with this thread?

Again I haven't worked at McDonalds, but I know if an employee has messed up my order. This example is alot like asking if I have tried it. Again Nope, but after many years of watching can tell a good ref from a bad ref.

You know what? I earn the right to criticize the ref every time I plunk down my $$$ for a ticket. The same way that I earn my right to criticize the play of the Wildcats, the coaching decisions, the food at the KYC, etc. Can't take it? Find something else to do. If an official can't take criticism, they will never advance anyway.

FWIW, I have coached baseball, football, basketball and ball hockey. I also umpire baseball. I have been verbally assailed by parents and other coaches, been questioned, and even been threatened. You know what I did? I dealt with it and moved on. As should you.

I'll stick up for a lot of the officials in this league. A lot of them do a fine job and actually I'd say the officiating this year was tons better than it's been in the past.

And actually two guys I will step up for on the list are Binda and Steinel. And maybe McCreary, even though it was me to nominate him. I pretty much put him on there because of one call that I really, really, really didn't disagree with (and before anyone says 'oh it was against the Blues' no -- it was against the Outlaws) but yeah, he usually does a fine job.

I don't think I've seen Lucina. Or if I did he didn't stink or do anything amazingly bad for me to remember.

But I think its fair that when every team in the league has fans that don't like Dreger, there might be something there. Where there's smoke there's fire.

I think Dreger = sucks is about the only thing we all can agree on here.

Hockeyman1989 wrote:

Any of you guys posting actually ever put on a sweater and grabbed a whistle? Doubtful.....maybe you should try it before you start bashing referee's and linesmen. Afterall what game would you have to watch without them?

Try asking douchebag about the whistle....he seems to NO it all...

HockeyFamily wrote:

Hockeyman1989 wrote: you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle. I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad.

So now we have the league spending more $ on the Referees. OK, acording to you, they need to spend more on the Robbie Cup Tournament (sorry, couldn't resist) and now they need to spend more on the training, development, evaluation, etc of the Refs. So, expenses for the teams/leagues will be increasing (lets throw rising travel costs in the mix), which only come back to bite the fan of a Junior Hockey Developmental League in the ass. What used to become an inexpensive night with the family will then increase to where many people will stop attending. Don't forget, the Disposable Income/Entertainment $ for many people/families is dwindling. When i sit back and look at what I get for my $ in this league, and here in Frisco we paid more than a lot of you, I really don't have that many complaints.

Jtornado wrote:

HockeyFamily wrote: Hockeyman1989 wrote: you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle. I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad. So now we have the league spending more $ on the Referees. OK, acording to you, they need to spend more on the Robbie Cup Tournament (sorry, couldn't resist) and now they need to spend more on the training, development, evaluation, etc of the Refs. So, expenses for the teams/leagues will be increasing (lets throw rising travel costs in the mix), which only come back to bite the fan of a Junior Hockey Developmental League in the ass. What used to become an inexpensive night with the family will then increase to where many people will stop attending. Don't forget, the Disposable Income/Entertainment $ for many people/families is dwindling. When i sit back and look at what I get for my $ in this league, and here in Frisco we paid more than a lot of you, I really don't have that many complaints.

How much would it cost to have some training for the refs in the summer on how to call the games consistently, example a little better idea on what to call and what to let go. With the way some of the refs have performed this year it questions if this has ever been done.

How much would it cost to have someone evaluate the tapes on a weekly basis and see how the refs are doing and give them some guidance on how to become better refs and how they could have called the game better? In better words a coach for the refs.

Don't you think that the guys on the team deserve to have the games called on a consistent basis? If this is to be a developmental league for the players and the refs is anyone working with the refs to further develop them?

Robertson Cup didn't need to spend a lot of money, just create a good and fair atmosphere for all teams and fans that were there. Make it feel like the special event it is supposed to be.

http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=OF_03&ID=20208

HockeyFamily wrote:

Jtornado wrote: HockeyFamily wrote: Hockeyman1989 wrote: you make a good point but you say this league is to develop players...so does that mean just players? no! most certainly not. All the referee's belong to a wonderous program....the usa hockey junior officiating development program which also has guys working their ass off to try and officiate at the college level and even higher and i beleive they're doing a damn good job at developing refs. im not saying every ref is perfect but you guys for damn sure shouldnt be singling any of them out they're developing just as much as the players. Hell half you guys have never even put on skates let alone have the balls to go grab a whistle. I think the NAHL needs to redo how it trains and develops refs. There are guys that ref for many of the lower levels and kids league all the time. The NAHL needs to find good refs and further develop them, not newbees that want to move up. The league needs to keep better track of the refs and review their games better. The fans are paying good money to see the games, the teams have paid the league to be in the league. I think the league owes it to the teams, the players and the fans to have good refs, not newbees that want to be something someday. Until then there will continue to be threads that say the truth about the refs. That some are good, some aren't so good, and well are just bad, real bad. So now we have the league spending more $ on the Referees. OK, acording to you, they need to spend more on the Robbie Cup Tournament (sorry, couldn't resist) and now they need to spend more on the training, development, evaluation, etc of the Refs. So, expenses for the teams/leagues will be increasing (lets throw rising travel costs in the mix), which only come back to bite the fan of a Junior Hockey Developmental League in the ass. What used to become an inexpensive night with the family will then increase to where many people will stop attending. Don't forget, the Disposable Income/Entertainment $ for many people/families is dwindling. When i sit back and look at what I get for my $ in this league, and here in Frisco we paid more than a lot of you, I really don't have that many complaints. How much would it cost to have some training for the refs in the summer on how to call the games consistently, example a little better idea on what to call and what to let go. With the way some of the refs have performed this year it questions if this has ever been done. How much would it cost to have someone evaluate the tapes on a weekly basis and see how the refs are doing and give them some guidance on how to become better refs and how they could have called the game better? In better words a coach for the refs. Don't you think that the guys on the team deserve to have the games called on a consistent basis? If this is to be a developmental league for the players and the refs is anyone working with the refs to further develop them? Robertson Cup didn't need to spend a lot of money, just create a good and fair atmosphere for all teams and fans that were there. Make it feel like the special event it is supposed to be.

I thot his name was Scott Brand.